The Total Depravity of certain Calvinists

My friend shared something she saw on Facebook, when I read her post, it devastated and sickened me.  I’m going to share in a moment.  Although I agree with no part of TULIP, this particular Calvinist’s comment made me think of his seeming total depravity.  But more likely that his conscience is seared.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.  And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. Matt 24:11-12

I am not here to accuse all Calvinists of thinking the way of this particular Calvinist.  But I do pray some take TULIP to its logical conclusion.   If you are going to comment, don’t bother to call me an Arminian, I am not that either.

Here is what this Calvinist posted…

 

This is a screenshot, I blocked out the baby’s parent’s names.   jeffswayzee-grandchilddamned

…GOD MAY HAVE CREATED ‘IT’ FOR DAMNATION….

By the way, he posted this in multiple places.  He seemed proud to declare this. Perhaps his daughter or daughter-in-law didn’t think it was great to post in all these public groups, as he has subsequently removed them recently as far as we can see.

This kind of thinking and lack of understanding that this ‘it’ is a baby from the moment God formed him/her, is exactly why we are a murdering/aborting nation.

He who does not love does not know God, for God is love In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him.  1 John 4:8-9

By the way, this same Calvinist later stated that God may have decreed his upcoming grandchild be a mass murderer.*  This same Calvinist grandpa said regarding God decreeing RAPE, God must then direct the rapist not just who to rape but how to perform the rape and how long… Amen but I would go even farther than that, God originated every detail in His mind from all eternity and decreed it to be so.”

*This is a position of other Calvinists like James White (Alpha and Omega ministries) regarding God causing people to rape children or any other wretched thing.   People like Paul Washer say that God is glorified in the ‘backdrop’ of sinful depravity.  (I can state that I believe these men to understand depravity in their own condemned minds.  I do not believe God decreed it, but He may have given them over since they do not have a love for the truth….

As a Christian, and a mom of many children, the statement of this man horrified me.  I thought, certainly the Calvinists who saw this would be just as mortified at this calloused, hard-hearted statement.  No, to my dismay, from each and every Calvinist that commented, there was either a general sense of apathy, or even joking.  One woman quipped that the ultrasound looked just like the soon to be grandfather.   (Edited in: Perhaps this is why Beth was removed, the rest who have had a general apathy are on those same screen shots, in the previously public group. It is now closed likely due to this article.)

Others totally untouched by the coldness of the man.  Finally one commented that although he believed in unconditional election, he did not believe people were doomed to hell.  However, the simple truth is that in their doctrine, if only these certain few people are chosen to be saved, the others are rejected and have no chance of salvation.  Whether they are comfortable admitting that fact, the obvious conclusion is that the rest are damned to hell by God in advance with no choice in the matter.

Later Cheryl asked this man Jeff Swayzee (edited in since it has been all over Facebook) to share the Gospel with her, since he routinely says any that oppose his doctrine, are ‘likely’ reprobate, lost, damned and a heretic.  She thought if so, he might want to share the Gospel, the power of God unto salvation, with such a one as he says she is. The following is his response:

Jeff S.. “the Gospel is a precious pearl And jesus said not to cast it before swine.”

(I left the wording as he spelled it, the jesus he preaches doesn’t need to be capitalized, it is another jesus, another spirit).

I know God so loves the entire world.   He exhorts us to pray for all men, and givetitus 2-11 ALL
thanks for them.  He says it is good and acceptable in His sight, because  He desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:1-4).

He tells us to be sure to love each other, so others will know we belong to Him (John 13:34-35).

This same God tells us to love our enemies, bless
those that curse us, do good to those who hate us, and even pray for those who spitefully use us and persecute us, saying when we do so we are His sons, this tells us of His good character to all men (Matt 5:44-45).

Does this sound like a God who doesn’t love and care for those very same people He tells us to love and do good to?

There is no darkness in God, He is light (1 John 1:5), that True light that gives light to every man that comes into the world (John 1:9).

He made each and every one of us. He knit us all together in the womb. He made us in His image. He is the God of Love that the beloved disciple John spoke of. Jesus, our Jesus, had compassion on the multitudes even for their hunger. He wept when Mary and the mourners wept over Lazarus death. He knew He was going to bring him back to life, but it hurt Him just to see them hurting, and He wept with them.

But You, O Lord, are a God full of compassion, and gracious, Longsuffering and abundant in mercy and truth.  Psalm 86:15

Jesus Wept …

Rom12-15He wept over Jerusalem, the people who rejected Him and despised Him. Who among us weeps over those who hate us? Do we weep for ourselves or for them?

Jesus wept for them. He said He wanted to gather them as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings.

Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.  Luke 19:41-42

 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”  Luke 13:34-35 

Evil doctrine teaches people such wicked and vile things about our Father in Heaven, and we know this is not the God of the Bible, the One we know and love. The One who had such great love for us, He laid down His life for us (John 15:13, John 10:17-18, John 3:14-18; 1 John 2:2).

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!  2 Tim 3:1-5

I don’t get it. Everyone seems to have a god of their own making…but usually they make their evil gods appear to be good.  Calvinism takes my good and loving Father, the One whose way is perfect, and makes Him more in the image of the god of this world.

My God stores my tears in a bottle and numbers my wandering… (Ps 56:8). He has precious thoughts towards me, more than the number of grains of sands in the whole earth (Ps 139:17-18).  His song is over me at night, a prayer to the God of my life, He commands His lovingkindness in the daytime (Ps 42:7-8). He COMMANDS His lovingkindness, yet these people paint a picture of my Lord like this? (tears)…

The Lord is gracious and full of compassion, He is slow to anger and GREAT in Mercy, He is good to ALL, and His tender mercies are all over His works (Ps 148:8-9).  His lovingkindness and tender mercies are of old (Ps 25:8).  People don’t appreciate the new mercies that await them in the morning.  The sun that rises, the rain that falls, He allows both for the just and the unjust in His great mercy (Matt 5:45).

My dear Savior, when my husband died, was with me, He comforted me.  He satiated my weary soul, and He replenished my sorrowful soul (Jer 31:25). My precious Lord was the strength of my heart and my portion forever, when I thought my flesh and my heart was actually failing (and it sure felt like it), like it says, Whom I have in heaven besides Thee? Ps 73:25-26

My God, knowing when my dear beloved best friend and husband would die, prepared me that day with His Word, even to the only thing I could pray when I waited outside the ER as they tried to revive him.

I prayed the words God gave me, “Oh God, You are my God, my flesh yearns for you, my soul longs for you, my soul CLINGS to You, Your right hand upholds me” — and it did – (part of Ps 63:1- and 8).

ps147-3My God loves every single person.  He made them in the womb – – formed their inward parts (Ps 139:13).  He knows everything about us. He heals the broken hearted, and binds up our wounds.  Just like He numbers the stars and calls them out by name (Ps 147), He numbers even the very hairs on our head (which change every moment (Luke 12:7).

I hate these kinds of evil, ugly, slanderous things that people say about God.  Not just because it’s NOT the God I know, it’s NOT the God of the Bible we see from beginning to end.  It’s NOT the God who gave Himself for me and saved me by His death on the cross.  He is mighty to save.  My Jesus has redeemed me, us all, from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (Gal 3:13).

My God searches me and knows me, even my thoughts before I have them.  He sees my laying down and my getting back up again, He knows even the words I will speak before they even leave my mouth (Ps 139). There is nowhere we can go from God, even when we make our bed in hell, there He is (Ps 139:8).  He is forevermore with those who believe on Him, and will never leave us or forsake us (Heb 13:5). No matter what it seems, God is always with us, He gives good gifts and is unchanging, His shadow never shifts (James 1:17).

God SO loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son (Jesus, to die on the cross for our sin), that whosoever would believe on Him, will NOT perish, but HAVE everlasting life.  Some will try to say world does not mean world here.  Jesus was also the propitiation not just for believers but the whole world.  God drew ALL to Him when He lifted up Christ on the cross.  Don’t listen to those who will twist His Word in their wisdom of words and excellency of speech.

Jesus didn’t come to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. World means world.  Jesus loved the little children, and warned those who would harm them or KEEP THEM from coming to Him in any way. Woe to this poor deceived person who would apply this wickedness to God, and have such a lack of care for this sweet little innocent baby, his own flesh and blood.  Oh yes I know he SAID he loved this baby, just like they SAY they believe in God’s grace.  They can’t possibly know of His love.

Those of us who have become flesh of His flesh and bone of His bones, His body, love Him because He first loved us.  We love and treasure His Word because it tells us more about Him, and there are not enough days to tell about God’s goodness to all the children of men (Psalm 107). Not a sparrow falls to the ground that He doesn’t know and care. We live in a fallen world, people get sick, people die, but He cares, and He LOVES each and every single person!!

The life which I now live, is by faith in the Son of God (my Jesus), who lovedgal 2 me and gave Himself for me (Gal 2). He died so that I might live. He gave Himself a ransom for ALL (1 Tim 2:6).  God is rich in mercy and because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our sins He made us alive together with Christ, by grace we have been saved (Eph 2:4-5).  Oh I just weep when I read things like this about Him. May they find out the truth about the God that loves them, even though they malign His character, and deceive others about His goodness…. Tears sometimes stream down my face making sick my heart, when I see or hear those ugly, awful lies about the God who first loved me, His love poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. As a sinner without strength, He commended His LOVE for ME (and everyone else who happens to have sinned ever in their life – I’m thinking that’s the whole world! Rom 5).

He gave us His Word, so that all might be able to come to salvation (2 Tim 3:15), that all through hearing His Word could come to faith (Rom 10:17).  His Word is treasure (Ps 119:162), and it was written for our learning, comfort and hope (Rom 15:4).  He gave His Word power to penetrate even the thoughts and intents of our hearts (Heb 4:12).

He desires all men to seek Him, grope for Him, and find Him (Acts 17:25-27).  His Word compels believers to live in such a way that others might know Him.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.  Matt 5:16

For our boasting is this: the testimony of our conscience that we conducted ourselves in the world in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom but by the grace of God, and more abundantly toward you.  2 Cor 1:12

There is nobody God doesn’t love who is still breathing right now.   He has sent His Son to be the sacrifice for your sin, your debt (Rom 6:23) and offers eternal life to all who will believe upon Him and what He has done for them.  But for those who reject Jesus Christ (through unbelief, or belief in a different way than God has offered), you will face the wrath and judgment of God.  It is appointed unto every man, once to die, then the judgment (Heb 9:27).

THIS CALVINIST SAID TO ONE WOMAN WHO DID NOT AGREE WITH HIM:

“You are not capable of studying God’s word alone, you need the guidance of others smarter than you. I am really starting to question the wisdom of putting the Scriptures in the hands of the common man. Some people just need to be told what to believe and leave the studying to other.”

Not far from the Road to Rome are they?

Some Calvinist may not think to present their gospel like this, but in honesty, this is what they believe, so shouldn’t this be how they present their gospel?

Maybe, just maybe… Christ died on the cross for your sin.  No, the word world does not mean world.  We have an explanation for “whole world”, “all” and “every man” as well — we’ll send you to our intellectual gurus.   According to our man Calvin, Christ only died for a few, and He only shed His blood for those He chose for heaven way back in eternity past.  No real way to say if you might be one of the few, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.  If you are, He will gift you with faith, so that you will be able to believe.  He will regenerate you first.  How will you know?  Can’t really say….  I don’t know if you are one of the ones He commended His love to, because He hates the rest of mankind.  You might pray for faith, but if I was being honest, that could not really work either.  Our gospel is only good news for a few He chose in eternity past.  If you end up believing, you still do not REALLY know if God is fooling you into thinking you have believed, this is called evanescent grace.  You will not know until you die.  None of us will, we can examine ourselves by our works which is called perseverance of the saints.  Good luck! END CALVINIST GOSPEL

And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.  Luke 2:10-11

Jesus came, He made Himself known through fulfilling the prophecies that foretold of the signs, wonders and miracles He would perform — miracles no one had ever done in the history of men.  There will be no excuse for any one in that day, for not having sought Him.  Seek Him while He may be found, He has made known His love to the whole world by sending His Son.   He’s coming again soon.  

He loves you.  

Don’t wait.  Seek Him while He may be found.

THE GOSPEL

IS LIMITED ATONEMENT TRUE?  DID CHRIST ONLY DIE FOR SOME?

55 Responses to “The Total Depravity of certain Calvinists

  • Kimberrly
    3 years ago

    Wow…I think I would NOT have ANY children at ALL if I thought this way! I couldn’t bear it! I know my kids might go to damnation of their own FREE will! But at least they have a CHANCE to BELIEVE! I teach my children in the WAY they should go…and if I thought there was a CHANCE that will ALL my efforts and prayers and teaching from the WORD…that they STILL might NOT have ever had a chance from the day they were born…I just couldn’t bear it…I wouldn’t have them..PERIOD!

    Thank you Holly for bringing all those VERSES that prove that OUR GOD is an awesome GOD…and loves the whole WORLD and DIED so that they might live…by believing we are assured of OUR ETERNAL LIFE! My kids ARE saved and will be in Heaven cause they made a CHOICE to BELIEVE upon THE LORD JESUS CHRIST! Praise THE LORD JESUS CHRIST for the simple Gospel to be BELIEVED!!!!

    • Amen Kimberrly — I cannot imagine it either, and if I believed this way, I’m with you, I wouldn’t want to have children. Excellent point:

      Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it. Prov 22:6

      Wouldn’t be true would it, if they didn’t have the ability to choose right from wrong?

    • Why would you not have Children Kimberrly? God can do what He chooses to do with His creation. We don’t know what God has chosen for our children until we get to heaven. We are just to raise them in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. we are to love them and preach the Gospel to our children God will take care of the rest.

    • Beth Logsden
      3 years ago

      Jeff – You have no shame…

      • Beth Logsdon, I have nothing to be ashamed about

        • Very sad for you Jeff that you do not recognize the condition of your own heart in maligning God, and blaspheming the way of truth. I pray for your family’s sake, you’ll get your nose out of FB groups, theology books and read the Word with a humble and contrite heart (Isaiah 66:2). Time is short (Heb 9:27).

      • Beth Logsden
        3 years ago

        You have no idea how little shame Jeff has. If you see the things he says to people, the way he talks about Jesus, even saying Jesus was a Calvinist. He has no shame, because he doesn’t understand. He is the Pharisee (High Calvinist he calls himself) thanking God he’s not like uus.

      • You two are the ones who need shame because you have rejected Truth, and rejecting truth is rejecting God for God is Truth.

        • I don’t reject ‘truth’, I reject what you say is ‘truth’ and that would be what you call High Calvinism. May you understand that Jesus is the truth we come to the Father by believing on Him and His work on the cross.

  • You see the picture of the little baby in the womb, and you think there is going to be some joy expressed over this new life, but then read his words, and I thought I was going to be physically ill. Oh how horrible. The man seems proud that he is so detached from his family and seems to be uplifting himself. I can’t even put into words what I am feeling or thinking…

    • I cried Debbie when I saw it on Cheryl’s page. It just made me sickened. At least the man tells the truth about what Calvinism teaches and the cold-hearts that they end up with.

      • I’m the big bad Calvinist who posted this picture of my grand baby.

        • If you are the big bad Calvinist who said these things, do you have no shame for the maligning of God’s character?

      • It is you who malign God. God is not ashamed of Himself so why should I be. You all lower God down to just a man with some power.

        • Jeff – We are not ashamed of God, nor His power. But nor are we ashamed of His lovingkindness, His tender mercies, His goodness to the children of men. Stick with the Word, repent from your man made theology. In Christ, Holly

  • First off, according to the Statement of Faith above, you do believe in at least one of the points of TULIP: “P” for “Perseverance of the Saints.”

    Second, what’s your problem with what the Calvinist said about the baby, other than being terribly insensitive? He or she was only referring to Romans 9:22-24, which says, “What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience VESSELS OF WRATH PREPARED FOR DESTRUCTION (emphasis mine)? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon VESSELS OF MERCY, WHICH HE PREPARED BEFOREHAND FOR GLORY (again, emphasis mine), even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.”

    Holly, you sound like a theological and biblical novice with your criticism of Calvinism. You don’t know your Bible, at least the parts that clearly teach God’s sovereignty in salvation (e.g., Rom. 9). For you all you seem to have ever heard was one side of the argument, so when confronted with the other side (an argument, by the way, that has been going on for centuries and will only ultimately be resolved in heaven) you have this knee-jerk reaction… almost wanting to call Calvinists heretics! I know some who do call us just that, but they are usually in the heretical Pelagian and Semi-Pelagian camps.

    So what’s your problem with God choosing some and not others? In reality, NONE should be chosen. That’s why “…it is by grace…” that we are saved. We all deserve hell. Now, if God wants to demonstrate his mercy, grace, love and patience on some, that’s His prerogative, is it not? After all, He’s God, the Righteous Judge, and He has satisfied His justice (which we who are saved were lacking) by spilling the precious blood of the Lamb. Those who are “passed over” by God will not receive anything they do not already deserve, right? It’s just that the vessels of mercy will receive what they don’t deserve because the Son received what we deserved in our place.

    While you opine about God’s love for all (e.g., “There is nobody God doesn’t love who is still breathing right now.), let’s don’t forget some complicating verses. For example, Psalm 5:5 says God hates all workers of iniquity! (Ps. 11:5 is another verse. While we are commanded to love our enemies, that is because we are no different than they. It would be hypocritical on our part to say God loves us and not love others. But God IS different than His creatures, who hate Him (Rom. 1:30). He is infinitely more holy than they are. So God can and does hate, whether that fits our paradigm or not. Otherwise, how do you explain such verses?

    No Holly, we aren’t making God into a despicable “god.” We are simply trying to remain faithful to the cry of the Reformation: “Sola Scriptura!” It’s not about what you or I “think” of the non-Calvinistic or Calvinistic God, but what He has revealed to us about Himself. You can take many of the passages out of context (hint: When the Bible says “us” in the context of a letter to Christian individuals or in a church, it usually needs to be read as referring to Christians vs. the whole world. Also, many of the verses you cite about God’s love and concern refer to the human author, who is already a child of God.), but you won’t win any arguments with Calvinists. You may feed the biases of the non-Calvinist readers of you blog, but if they’re honest, they will have to discard much of the biblical basis you claim to have.

    Yes, God is loving and merciful toward all for sending His Son into the world, but Jn. 3:16 says nothing about His Son dying for the world, does it? It just says that “whosoever believes will not perish.” But how can they believe unless God gives them the gift of faith (Eph. 2:8-9, Phil. 1:29)? How can they repent unless God grants them repentance (Acts 11:18)? How can a person dead in their sins (you quoted Eph. 2:4) do anything unless God does something first. Dead means dead! The Arminians call it “Prevenient Grace,” but say that God grants it to all men (although many will reject it). Calvinists call it “Irresistible Grace” and say it’s granted only to the elect (and none will reject it – Phil. 1:6). What say you?

    Let’s be honest, Holly. In reality, both sides of the argument have a “biblical basis.” To me Romans 9 is a slam dunk for Calvinism, but I am quick to admit 1 Tim. 2:1-6 is problematic for us. On the other hand, you need to seriously consider doing the same, considering 1 Tim. 2:1-6 a slam dunk for the non-Calvinist position and Rom. 9 problematic. That’s where we ultimately arrive with what is revealed in Scripture. So let’s back off from the accusations of preaching an unbiblical “god,” because we can turn that right around and use it to accuse you. But we don’t… unless we’re biblical/theological novices who appear to stumble upon a different view for the first time in our lives. To be honest, I know some Calvinists who seem more concerned about correcting non-Calvinists than preaching the gospel to the lost! I honestly think some are so concerned about non-essential doctrines or essential doctrines of secondary importance (LINK REMOVED TO CALVINIST SITE BY ADMIN) that they become disobedient to the Church’s primary mission of preaching the gospel to the whole world. They justify their disobedience while leaning on God’s sovereignty, not realizing that they will have blood on their hands for not warning the vessels of wrath of the eternal consequences of their sin (Ezekiel 33:1-10). Sad!

    • Thank you for commenting Bill – I do not agree in Perseverance of the Saints = eternal security. I am very familiar with it, and suggest Tom Cucuzza’s book, Secure Forever, God’s Promise or our Perseverance for an understanding of the difference.

      The fact that you don’t understand my problem with the statement explains the problem with Calvinists. I do understand and have looked at both sides of Romans 9, and I’m sure you know my disagreement with it.

      Bill, you said, “Holly, you sound like a theological and biblical novice with your criticism of Calvinism. You don’t know your Bible, at least the parts that clearly teach God’s sovereignty in salvation (e.g., Rom. 9). For you all you seem to have ever heard was one side of the argument, so when confronted with the other side (an argument, by the way, that has been going on for centuries and will only ultimately be resolved in heaven) you have this knee-jerk reaction… almost wanting to call Calvinists heretics!”

      However it seems to you Bill, I don’t answer to you, I answer to the Lord for how and what I know Biblically and my attitude towards Him in study.

      For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. 2 Cor 10:12

      I don’t call all Calvinists heretics, but the doctrine of TULIP (as correctly understood as somehow being the gospel) is another gospel, therefore heresy in my estimation.

      What’s my ‘problem with God choosing some and not others’? I have no problem as He has indeed chosen some for service, gifts, etc. but I do see anywhere in Scripture where He chooses some to heaven and some to hell.

      As for the link that was removed, have you ever asked yourself why Matt Slick’s daughter possibly may have embraced atheism? I would gather you believe it is because she a reprobate (or most Calvinist’s would see it that way), as for me, I believe it is because the character of God is maligned by TULIP or DOG (supposed ‘doctrines of grace’).

      You said, “We are simply trying to remain faithful to the cry of the Reformation”….(supposedly sola Scriptura – do a little more research on what Luther meant by that)

      I will tell you, “I am simply trying to remain faithful to the whole counsel of God”. Whether you see those passages as ‘opining’, you will answer as I will, for ever idle word spoken, and especially about His character.

      To go through each thing you said would just be the same argument over and over, where Scripture is not heard, i.e., “Yes, God is loving and merciful toward all for sending His Son into the world, but Jn. 3:16 says nothing about His Son dying for the world, does it? It just says that “whosoever believes will not perish.”

      God says in 1 John 2:2, I am sure you are aware, that He is the propitiation for us (and remember you said that is the church, thank you for the hint you felt I was unaware of 🙂 ), and He is also the propitiation for the whole world. (Please don’t bother to come back with foolish arguments of Jesus failing, or then why aren’t all saved). Get into the whole counsel of God. Find out when the blood of prophet is shed, what the blood does. Jesus was the Prophet that Moses testified of in Deut 18, and He said, that if they not hear Him, God would require it of them. There is no wasted blood. It is available to all men, and was shed for all men.

      ALL HAVE SINNED

    • There was so much of the typical Calvinist argument that I didn’t bother to answer what is fairly easily refuted, so let’s be honest….

      You said, “not realizing that they will have blood on their hands for not warning the vessels of wrath of the eternal consequences of their sin (Ezekiel 33:1-10). Sad!”

      Warn the vessels of wrath of the eternal consequences? In Calvinist dogma, Why? God has chosen them for this, why would you warn them of what God intends to do? You would be going against His purpose for them, perhaps He’s reserved them for evanescent grace so that they’ll really suffer later, and the calvinist god does not want them to know. So you would be going against his will…

  • Ann Jones
    3 years ago

    I would fire him from grandfather duties even before the baby was born. After all, he just might be predestined to be a bad grandfather. Sure is off to a good start, if so.

    • Ann I agree. This same man might decide it was wrong to love ‘IT’ because he determined ‘IT’ to be a reprobate. I’ve seen how he has treated those he feels are reprobates (anyone who ‘resists’ Calvinism)….

  • Preston
    3 years ago

    first real comment here.

    When looking through the scriptures one should look through the lens of the gospel; Jesus.

    When looking at the bible, the Calvinists looks through the lens of God’s sovereignty (and what is defined by that).

    This is where the really foolish comments “then God failed” come from. I have had to address that one as well.

    Romans 9 thru 11 – through their UNbelief of ISRAEL, the gentiles were grafted in to the “fold”.
    – john 5:40 – And YE WILL NOT COME to me, that ye might have life.

    Before Paul became and apostle and studied 3 years with the Lord. The disciples were to go to tribes of Israel. AFTER most rejected it (un belief) then the gentiles were grafted in. This is what was shocking to Peter in Acts 10. Peter needed this vision to agree and accept Paul’s ministry to the gentiles.

    – Gal 2:7-8 – 7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

    God hardens hearts on many occasions, ALL AFTER one’s unbelief.
    1. pharoh – after the first 5 signs of Moses
    2. Israel – in part blinded until the fullness of the gentiles comes in
    3. during the tribulation, after rejection, God will give a strong delusion

    my two cents (not usually worth much).

    blessings,

    • Thank you Preston for your always appreciated insight. I think in them trying to conclude God’s ways and thoughts somehow, they are unable to accept His Scriptures for they say.

      World does not = world
      Every man does not = every man
      All men does not = all men
      All does not = All
      Whole world does not = whole world
      Bought the false prophets does not = bought the false prophets by His death on the cross

      Interesting always to me that God chose Peter to go to the Gentiles first, and Paul was chosen and started first with the Jews (went up to Jerusalem first) but chosen as a vessel for Gentiles, Jews, & Kings, then it got switched for their ministries.

      7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 15:7-11

  • I read over the comments bill made and had to stop and thank God that I have been set free from that “system of thought”. I was thinking how can this gentleman not see the good news that Jesus paid for sins in full and we are free to be who Christ Jesus empowers us to be. The Gospel is good news how can someone not see the gospel right in front of them ? but then remembered I was once all twisted up and the gospel was hid in plain sight as well.
    2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
    2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them

    I have known sister holly over the internet probably well over a year now. from my experience She is a good woman and godly lady who strives to allow the Word of God be the Word of God allowing the Bible to teach itself apart from systems of thought. If someone doesn’t see the sincerity she strives for and instead attacks her with words, You have got some serious spiritual illness going on. May God be merciful to you as He has been to me.
    Love mercy, do justly and walk in humility with God.

    Pro 10:19 In the multitude of words sin is not lacking, But he who restrains his lips is wise.

    That through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
    Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

    Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

    • Curtis, thank you for your kind words and especially for bringing up Micah 6:8, that is as if another answered prayer. The Lord knows specifically what it is.

      I praise God too for His Word, and His mercy, compassion and lovingkindness that we see each day. The Lord is so good to give us instruction, wisdom, counsel and most importantly knowledge of Him, because these systems exalt themselves against the knowledge of God.

      May the Lord bless you, and all who visit here. In Jesus Christ eternally (as dear Jack used to say). It’s truth!

  • Bobbie Jo
    3 years ago

    Unofrtunately this is exactly what causes individuals to not search for Him and deny His existence completely. I’ve heard some call “god”, parenthesis due to the fact this isn’t the true God we know and love, a tyrant and an evil dictator. What horrid names to call our Father whom they’ve never known the truth of. They harden their hearts and are next to impossible to reach.

    This man’s confusion on who the Lord is is very disheartening and saddens me.

    Ephesians 6:4 “And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.”

    How can one believe God has predestined any for damnation?

    Romans 10:17 “So the faith cometh by hearing, and hearing the Word of God.”

    Isaiah 53:6 “All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us ALL.”

    1 Timothy 4:10 “For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of ALL MEN, specially of those that believe.”

    1 Timothy 2:4 “Who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the Truth.”
    John 5:39-40 “Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And YE WILL NOT come to me, that ye might have life.”

    There are so many verses in scripture that refute the claims of Calvinism but those who have hardened their hearts cannot see it. Its disheartening. A new life is to be celebrated. Hopefully this poor, innocent child doesn’t grow up to hate the Lord due to the falsehoods he/she hears.

    Thanks for article, Holly. It sheds like on how far the evil one has deceived and blinded those who haven’t loved the truth.

    • Thanks Bobbie Jo,

      I do agree, many have come out of Calvinism and into atheism, praise God for those who just come out and into Biblical truth and love of the Lord instead. But even those who don’t know Him, know this cannot be true. But you are right, this is why God is way mischaracterized. And I do believe they harden their hearts through the deceitfulness of sin. Of sin, because they believe not on Him. They do not know His true attributes and mock any disagreement as ’emotionalism’. They don’t understand love of the gospel, love of God, His love, love of the Word.

    • Beth Logsden
      3 years ago

      Bobbie Jo – I agree, this man most certainly doesn’t understand the true attributes of our loving God, nor recognize Scripture even, when quoted without reference, several times he called me ’emotional’ or an ’empiricist’… Anyways, may we all pray for Jeff, Lord willing that he hear the real gospel.

  • And imagine the grandfather of this expected child saying… //”God must then direct the rapist not just who to rape but how to perform the rape and how long.” Amen but I would go even farther than that, God originated every detail in His mind from all eternity and decreed it to be so. //

    When I ask for Scripture on context to prove this nonsense, there is much verbal “frothing at the mouth.” Who knew context would be considered a dirty word? And who would dream, there are those who are more upset when asked for Scripture in context, than they are that many teach this skewed, diabolical doctrine?

    And I am considered the reprobate in their eyes.

    (Edit by Admins: This is true. This is a quote from the same man)

  • Excellent exposé article, Holly! Not much more that I can add to it other than the one pet peeve I have of Calvies in quoting (or should I say, MIS-quoting?) Romans 8:29-30 “ 29 For whom He FOREKNEW, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.” [caps only for emphasis in vs 29]

    I will ALWAYS point out the ORDER of the listing of such things
    1) FOREKNOWLEDGE
    2) PREDESTINATION
    3) CONFORMING
    4) Therefore, PREDESTINATION (based on His Foreknowledge) leads to → being CALLED
    5) Being CALLED leads to → being JUSTIFICATION
    6) Which bring us to → GLORIFICATION

    Furthermore, these Calvies tend to forget another important scripture in 1 Peter 1:2, “ELECT according to the FOREKNOWLEDGE of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ”.

    Foreknowledge in Greek (derived from SAME word in both Romans 8:29 & 1 Peter 1:2), according to HELPS Word-studies #4267 of the Strong’s Concordance is:
    proginṓskō (from 4253 /pró, “before” and 1097 /ginṓskō, “to know”) – properly, foreknow; used in the NT of “God PRE-KNOWING ALL CHOICES – and doing so without pre-determining (requiring) them”

    He is the Alpha & the Omega, the Beginning & the End. He knows all things before they even come to pass. He can look down the corridors of time & know how things will turn out, what CHOICES each one of us will make in our lifetime, before any of them even exist.

    IMO, it can’t really get much simpler than that, and yet these Calvies are also so determined to strip away the SIMPLICITY which is in Christ, the SIMPLICITY of the Gospel, that even someone with a CHILDLIKE faith can believe in the One Whom the Father sent, Jesus Christ. 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 states the gospel quite succinctly, “For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures”.

    But alas, I will step aside from my related pet peeve rabbit trail of the many things that I have discovered about how wrong Calvinism is…. It just grieves me to no end to see the increasing numbers who are dragged off & bewitched by such a false gospel & damnable heresy. I can’t even imagine how much more it grieves the heart of God. Just so thankful that there are a remnant whose blinders have been removed by the preaching & patient teaching of the pure Word, for it is the power of God unto salvation. Our faith comes by hearing & that by the Word of God.

      Psalm 119:130
      The entrance of Your words gives light;
      It gives understanding to the simple.

    May the Lord continue to strengthen you, dear sister, as you fight this good fight of faith, as wearisome as it is… for in due season, we WILL reap a harvest, if we faint not. ♥

    • Thank you Marian, This same ‘gentleman’ quoted a Calvinist named Robbins who said 1 Cor 15:3-4 was the gospel then proceeded with a whole long diatribe about how it really wasn’t the gospel in that it didn’t contain the whole counsel of God. Lord help those, whoever they may be, that are in this bondage….

  • Beth Logsden
    3 years ago

    I got kicked out of a Calvinist group on FB for sharing this. (Calvinism Theology against the rest of Christianity) — supposedly a group against Calvinism.

    This had been public info, then they made a policy to not share comments outside of the group. To the man this is about, they told he could share comments as long as he didn’t name names. So I guess a few double standards there… 🙂

    • Beth Logsden
      3 years ago

      Glad to have the public screen shots. People often erase their posts after they have posted them on FB. I witnessed this also as well as several others, and took screen shots myself. Good to be kicked out of Calvinist groups. Interesting though that the perp has no shame.

  • This is the big problem with false prophets of any religion. They are able to win over a plethora of followers even if they preach outright lies and sick doctrines. In Judaism, we had two cases of false “messiahs” that resulted in a permanent stain on our religion: Sabbatai Sevi and Jacob Frank. They were able to win millions of Jewish followers despite the fact that both of them promoted the polar opposite of what Judaism teaches. Yes, Calvinism, as well as Mormonism and other such Christian sects, are the same thing. Cult figures rise to power and fool millions who see their lives shattered.

    • Shirabaram, I am of Jewish descent, thank you for commenting. There were more too in Judaism, shortly after Jesus claiming to be Messiah. May I ask who you believe the true Prophet to be? The one that Moses warned Israel they better to or God would require it of them?

        15 The Lord thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken; 16 according to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. 17 And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deut 18:15-20
      • Nobody knows when Messiah will come or who it will be. We can only guess. We do know according to the Talmud that the real messiah will be someone who promotes mitzvot rather than breaking them and who will create a spiritual awakening.

        What needs to be addressed is the power of the false messiah and the horrors it can inflict. Many people are completely unaware of how the evil teachings of Sabbatai Sevi and Jacob Frank are still affecting us today. Sabbatai Sevi used the Kabbalah in order to overturn Jewish Law. He stated that, because he as the “messiah” had come, all sins were now mitzvot and all mitzvot were now sins. In order to “repair” G-d (a concept found in Lurianic Kabbalah, which is nothing more than occultism) the whole world must reject its traditional morality and fall into sin. This idea was propagated even further by Sabbatai’s alleged “reincarnation” Jacob Frank, who gained a huge amount of followers in Europe during the 18th century.

        The Sabbatean and Frankist heresies allegedly died off for the most part by the start of the 19th century. However, by the start of the 20th century Jewish scholars were bringing these heresies back into light. One such scholar was the German fallen Jew Gershom Scholem, who would teach all of this evil to his best friend, the literature critic Walter Benjamin. Benjamin would become a Marxist a short time later and join the Frankfurt School, becoming one of its key intellectuals. He applied these same occult theological concepts to cultural critique which would later become known as Critical Theory aka Cultural Marxism. The Sabbatean idea of reversing the truth so that good becomes evil and evil becomes good is the backbone of Critical Theory, which is taught at nearly all secular universities and most “religious” universities as well.

        Cultural Marxism is at the root of the fall of the West, but the evil teachings of Sabbatai Sevi and Jacob Frank are at the root of Cultural Marxism. Political correctness, the death of the Western family, the absence of true Judeo-Christian morality, the growing socialism in America and the overall turn of the West to Leftism comes from false messianic teachings.

        • All foretold in His Word. Foreshadowed in the feasts. We believe of course Jesus fulfilled four of the feasts, and is coming again.

          For instance, the Afikoman – the Greek Word that slipped into today’s present day Passover Seders. Rabbinic tradition differs, some say it represents the Lamb, and everyone must eat of it. Interesting that some identify the middle piece as the Priestly bread. Everything else is Hebrew. It is the second aorist form (completion of an action, without reference to length of action) of the Greek verb “ikneomai.”

          The word simply means – ‘HE CAME’, or “He who is coming.” Jesus, as you know, is the Messiah that fulfilled the Old Testament Scriptures. He partially fulfilled some and is coming back again. Just as there were multiple references to the abomination of desolation in Antiochus Epiphanes, and then Titus in A.D. 70, there will be another who will come in the end, to set himself up as a god in the new temple. He will be a ‘man of peace’ and Israel will think they are in peace and safety during the day of Jacob’s trouble, the last 7 years of Daniel’s prophecy.

          We pray for the peace of Jerusalem. And know that God will punish her enemies. He will perform it as in the day of Midian (Judges 7 I believe). Nothing is hidden that will not be revealed.

          God bless you and keep you, and make His face to shine upon you.

        • Of course we have the issue with the Vatican and with the U.N., God has not forgotten His people.

        • I have a question for you, from the perspective as one of God’s chosen people. How do you view this idea of the majority of Calvinists, that they are the ‘elect’ and have replaced Israel? That might sound like a simplistic question, but in their idea of ‘unconditional election to eternal life’, they use a passage from the New Testament in Romans 9 that references Gen 25:23 and Malachi 1:2-14 among others.

          10 And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; 11 (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

  • Question: Do you believe God “foreknows” which babies will go to heaven or hell? If so, does not make their destiny certain? If you agree, don’t you have the same problem? There is no “chance” involved here.

    • Hi Ron – Thanks for the question.

      I believe God foreknows who will become one of His, that does not make their destiny certain within our timeline, although we humans tend to try to apply our understanding to His ways and thoughts.

      God is outside of time, and already knows the end of course. Yet oddly somehow within that end, He has allowed us choice and free will and desires it so as He says throughout. He may know, yet we still have a will. How that works with His eternal and complete power, knowledge and presence, we know as much as He has revealed in His Word. So to try to figure out His ways and thoughts which are above ours, and define them in our limited understanding doesn’t quite work.

      We are in a different timeline, He has always been, we have not. He has not chosen for us, for the Psalmist says “I have chosen the path of truth”.

      He has not made us sin, nor chosen us to heaven or hell, yet He knows who will. Does that mean He made us sin, or determined our end?

      Acts 17 tells us that He’s even been so loving and gracious, to place us in certain times and boundaries so that we should seek the Lord, in the HOPE that we might grope for Him and find Him. Why so? Why have us pray for all men? (1 Tim 2:1-6). There is a reason, God does not give us busy work, or command us to do worthless things, He tells us in Proverbs to turn our eyes from worthless things, so He does not lie.

      He does not tell one they have such a great faith IF He was the one that made them and gifted them that great faith, HE would then be taking God’s glory from Him. He would be untruthful and God is not a man that He should lie. He does not chastise another for their little faith (o ye of little faith) if it is not their own responsibility to build their faith by hearing His Word. So, we might have seemingly difficult things to understand, but when Jesus says, “Have faith”, the obvious simple answer is, than man can have faith, all men, or He’d have been lying to many.

      I won’t make this too long, hope it answered your question, In Christ, Holly

      • Holly, I agree with your response to Ron.

        God has foreknowledge of, but does not decree, any of the choices we make. This includes whether one will, or will not, believe in Jesus as his Savior.

        God knew that Ron would post his question, that you would reply to it in the exact way that you did, and so on.

        God knew what I was going to have for dinner tonight. And yet, I made the choice. God knows what I will do wrong in my life. And yet it’s not His fault. He does not make me do it.

        It is the same way with eternal life. God desires that all men be saved. He has made the perfect provision for our salvation. And yet the choice as to whether or not we will believe is ours.

        • Amen Johninnc. God knows… We certainly do try to limit Him to our own understanding versus trusting what He says in His Word regarding His power, His mercy, His lovingkindness and so much more — yet He has allowed us free will to believe upon Him. Or a choice to reject the offer of a free gift of eternal life. I also trust that He gives us what we need in His Word to be thoroughly furnished unto all good works. That our prayers matter, or He would not ask us to pray for all men and tell us why (because He was a ransom for all and desires none should perish). I take Him at His Word, for He is not a man that He should lie.

          God is good to the children of men. He has shown the riches of His goodness, His forbearance and His longsuffering with all men. May we continue to share the good news, that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. That He tasted death for every single person. That when He says He desires none should perish, He means it.

  • Vanessa
    2 years ago

    Thank you for this. Calvinism is a horrible false belief system which nearly caused me to abandon my faith after 30yrs of walking with God. It has been a long and difficult recovery, but luckily our God is faithful and He did not abandon me in the sea of lies I was drowning in. It is very confusing to me that so many people I have respected and looked to for sound doctrine have turned out to be Calvinist. I’ve come to the point where I don’t know who I can trust anymore. It just shows you that God doesn’t reveal Himself through the wisdom of man, but rather he makes their wisdom foolish. I choose to cling to His Word and trust what He says about Himself above even the most intellectual and respected of men.
    So many Christians tell me that we can agree to disagree. That both “sides” are true. That this is an “in house” issue that doesn’t matter. I can’t accept it. I’ve spent a year trying to make sense of the Calvinist god and he is not the same as mine. If you worship a false god, how can you be a son of the true God?

    • Vanessa, welcome and thanks for your comments.

      Some people who believe in the false god of Calvinism are Christians who have been bewitched by false doctrine. Others have never believed the gospel. It’s impossible to tell which is which.

      So, anyone who espouses false plans of salvation needs to be evangelized.

    • Hi Vanessa, I agree with you. I don’t know how many have believed upon Jesus Christ and Him crucified, the true gospel, and later became bewitched. I believe like you, that Calvinistic doctrine teaches characteristics of God and Jesus which are not true, which is another Jesus, and requirements to the gospel, before, during or after, that also make it another gospel. I do abhor the doctrine, and yet some are in the reformed churches and see if from a certain perspective and haven’t explored the Scriptures to see what they say. They believe they have, because their teachers may use a number of them. I pray they will continue to search the Scriptures to see if these things are so. That they will prove all things by holding fast to that which is good. That they’ll test the Spirits. This doctrine is sending the lost away, with the truth of TULIP being made known to more, this elitist doctrine leaves people without hope of ever knowing if they are one of the real believers or if they are simply fooled by evanescent grace. Or they might be a believer, convinced they are not a believer by this pernicious doctrine, and then they will have their faith made shipwreck.

      I am thankful there are the faithful who will compare it (along with Arminianism) and earnestly contend for the faith once delivered. God bless you.

  • Just as the Jewish betrothal and marriage is a picture and illustration of our salvation and relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ, the salvation and relationship of a calvinist to their lord, molech, can also be illustrated by the muslim child bride marriage: the two are polar opposites.
    Unlike a Jewish bride, She has no choice in the matter: Before she is born, she is betrothed. But not all the girls will be picked: (some appointed for glory, some for destruction) she does not choose the groom, he chooses her: (“unconditional election”) she had no choice, nor did the ones not chosen or found worthy for whatever reason.
    She is bought, sold, and most often is resold or traded, or forsaken completely when she no longer pleases her groom or finds favor in his eyes:(“failed perserverance of the saints”) she cannot question or challenge him, its not permitted. She can be harshly punished for doing so.(hell for apostasy) She cannot challenge or dispute with her husband. (“Protect the prophet”) she is not permitted study on her own, a man must teach her. (Calvin, or mohmed) She must obey and agree with his doctrines and his teachings regardless. She’s to remain silent in public. Her opinion is worthless. Shes basically a slave with no will of her own.

    It’s not difficult to see its paralells with the evil doctrines of Jean Calvin.

    • For comparison to Christianity: The Jewish betrothal and marriage is a good illustration of our salvation.

      The Jewish bride has free will to choose or reject her potential groom.
      He chose her first, that doesn’t mean she chooses or accepts him.

      He offers himself and the dowry.

      It’s still up to her. He cannot force her, or make her decide.

      IF she chooses him, and accepts him, at that point, she is bound to him as long as she lives, she is bought with a price. Even in adultery, only the groom has the legal option to divorce. Like it or not, she belongs to him.
      We belong to Jesus in much the same manner.

      We are bought with a price, the shed blood of Jesus. As part of his body, the bride, we are bone of his bone, flesh of his flesh. No man hateth his own body.

      https://huckleberry2012.wordpress.com/2016/09/07/jewish-betrothal-and-marriage-an-illustration-of-our-salvation/

      • Thank you for commenting Huckleberry. Seems some prefer to malign God’s good character. They need to step out of their proof text zone and if they have believed on Christ and Him crucified, get into His Word vs. mans.

  • I think that the term “evanescent grace” is extremely inappropriate. If the so-called evanescent “grace” (I put the quotation marks there because it’s not the biblical definition of grace) means that God is fooling people in order to let them think they are saved, then it is not grace at all. It should be called “evanescent curse” or “evanescent damnation”.

Trackbacks & Pings

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